Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

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Elske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:59 pm

Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Elske » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:11 pm

Hello!

I'm Dutch and I recently did a DNA-test.

Results MyHeritage:
48% Scandinavian
37,6% English
10,2% North and West European
4,2% Finnish

I uploaded the raw data to GEDmatch and now I'm confused. Eurogenes K13 and Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 give different outcomes, but maybe explainable. I'm getting West Scottish and Irish with K13 and Norwegian and Orcadian with K15. I know the history about Norse Vikings invading Scotland and Ireland, but I don't know if these results go that far back. Scotland and Ireland weren't in my DNA-results from MyHeritage. I need some help with interpreting the results. Where did my ancestors come from? :D

P.S. I have no Scandinavian / English / Scottish family-members. My family-tree is mainly Frisian (North-Dutch) for as far as I could check.
Thanks in advance!

Here are my results from K13 and K15:

Eurogenes K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 54.88
2 Baltic 22.89
3 West_Med 9.25
4 West_Asian 7.72
5 East_Med 1.32
6 South_Asian 1.03


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Scottish @ 4.360655
2 Irish @ 4.723590
3 Orcadian @ 6.025393
4 North_Dutch @ 6.692743
5 Danish @ 7.080417
6 Norwegian @ 7.263780
7 Southwest_English @ 7.493117
8 Southeast_English @ 8.256679
9 North_German @ 9.614252
10 Swedish @ 10.742491
11 South_Dutch @ 13.823736
12 West_German @ 14.951942
13 North_Swedish @ 17.831327
14 French @ 19.573328
15 Austrian @ 21.017225
16 East_German @ 21.299185
17 Hungarian @ 26.013918
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 27.144526
19 Southwest_Finnish @ 27.344744
20 Southwest_French @ 28.256506

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% West_Scottish +50% West_Scottish @ 4.360655


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% West_Scottish +25% West_Scottish +25% West_Scottish @ 4.360655


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.360655
2 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.407190
3 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.484448
4 Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.499399
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.587667
6 Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.616492
7 Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.620183
8 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.627473
9 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.705427
10 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 4.723590
11 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.725576
12 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.731634
13 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 4.760079
14 Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.769755
15 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 4.857495
16 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 4.861999
17 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 4.862321
18 Irish + Irish + Irish + Norwegian @ 4.924794
19 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.949561
20 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 4.980607


EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 46.45
2 Atlantic 24.52
3 Baltic 9.14
4 West_Med 6.05
5 Eastern_Euro 5.87
6 West_Asian 4.91
7 Siberian 1.01


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_Norwegian @ 7.576653
2 Orcadian @ 8.791408
3 Norwegian @ 10.153351
4 North_Dutch @ 10.591898
5 Swedish @ 11.396733
6 West_Scottish @ 11.656167
7 Danish @ 12.080496
8 Irish @ 12.436927
9 Southeast_English @ 13.131688
10 Southwest_English @ 13.567565
11 North_German @ 15.189331
12 West_German @ 15.399151
13 North_Swedish @ 16.181864
14 South_Dutch @ 18.507126
15 French @ 21.892984
16 East_German @ 23.754824
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 24.606916
18 Finnish @ 26.828611
19 Hungarian @ 27.985327
20 Austrian @ 29.559710

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +50% West_Norwegian @ 7.303298


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Norwegian @ 7.303298


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.202964
2 Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.303298
3 West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.576653
4 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.827391
5 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 7.863864
6 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 7.920739
7 North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.926695
8 West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 7.946229
9 Orcadian + Swedish + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.985064
10 Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish + West_Norwegian @ 7.995120
11 North_Dutch + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.001756
12 Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 8.058501
13 Irish + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.066842
14 Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.177138
15 Southeast_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.178503
16 Southwest_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.188323
17 Irish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.200743
18 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 8.285810
19 Danish + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.312731
20 Orcadian + Southeast_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 8.344002

Kevin Brook
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:55 am
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Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Kevin Brook » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:59 am

Elske,

Your MyHeritage estimates resemble those I had seen from other West Frisian and North Dutch people in other forums, as far as the so-called Scandinavian element being high.

The similarity with English people comes from the migration of Saxons into Frisia after a depopulation event, and of the subsequent migration of some Frisians into Anglo-Saxon-era England.

Finnish looks like noise for you and should be ignored.

There were some good discussions about Frisian history and DNA (including Y-DNA subclades) by the Anthrogenica forum user who calls himself "Finn" (ironically enough, but not because he has Finnish ancestry).

I also have a Frisian DNA page at http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/frisians.html although I wish there were more studies so I could add more.

But...
In the calculators, it's East Scots, not West Scots, who resemble Anglo-Saxons because of shared descent.
"belmont22" wrote to city-data.com's forum: "From what I understand, Western Scots are a mix of Irish and Norse, and Eastern Scots a mix of Picts, Norse and Anglo-Saxon Northumbrians."
Therefore I can't make any sense of your showing a much closer genetic distance to *West* Scots (4.36) (your #1 guess!) and Irish (4.72) (historically genetically similar to West Scots i.e. from a heavy Celtic element) than to North Dutch (6.69) in the normally reliable calculator Eurogenes K13.
Your top guess for 4-population mode is, as you showed us, "West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 4.360655" and a Dutch element isn't even guessed until row 8.

Are you matching any Dutch and Frisian people in the upper realms of your match lists, or Scots instead? Please check at both GEDmatch and MyHeritage.
Is there any possibility you were adopted and nobody told you?
Your DNA looks so British/Nordic rather than West Germanic.
But if you happen to match other Frisian people very closely, this concern can be alleviated.

Actually, reading over my Frisian genetics page again, I see I wrote "A particular ethnic North Frisian from Nordfriesland has the following element proportions in the Eurogenes K15 calculator: [...] In its oracle, this person is closest overall to West Norwegians, much closer than to North Dutch or Danish people" -- so that's like you where K15 shows you as Norwegian-like most of all. So then you are in line with expectations, and "North Dutch" in the K15 reference population is ethnically distinct from Frisians.

I also wrote "This person's top 3 scores in Eurogenes K13 are: 55.45% North Atlantic, 25.92% Baltic, and 9.33% West Mediterranean." those proportions are close to yours of 54.88%, 22.89%, and 9.25% respectively.
My kit number is T544042. According to IBD segment analysis, I'm genetically 98.34% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.09% Sephardi Jewish, 0.46% Polish Catholic, and 0.11% Mizrahi Jewish. My genetics pages, My Quora

Elske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:59 pm

Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Elske » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:07 pm

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for your response. I really appreciate it!

I wasn't adopted and I resemble both of my parents very much! I match other Frisians / Dutch people on MyHeritage and on GEDmatch. They're in the upper realms of my match lists. MyHeritage even put me in the genetic group Friesland (level high), but they didn't place the genetic group under an etnicity.

I asked my father if he knows about a connection with Scotland / Ireland, but he doesn't know. He joked about the red hair on his side of the family (I'm a redhead and so are a lot of my uncles and aunts) and how we maybe got it from there. He'll do a DNA-test as well, so I'll be able to get more information.

Vikings invaded Scotland and Ireland and they mixed with the local people. Is it possible that the results of K13 and K15 are showing that? So my ancestors are both Norse and Celtic? There were Frisians in Brittain in the 5th /6th century. I've read about Frisian settlements in the area of Dumfries. My family tree is so Frisian, so I wonder how the Frisians will fit in.

I'll check your page about Frisians and the Anthrogenica forum. They both seem very interesting.

Kind regards,
Elske

My kit number is: YJ4047623.

Kevin Brook
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:55 am
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Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Kevin Brook » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:52 pm

Elske wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:07 pm
I match other Frisians / Dutch people on MyHeritage and on GEDmatch. They're in the upper realms of my match lists. MyHeritage even put me in the genetic group Friesland (level high), but they didn't place the genetic group under an etnicity.
[...] My family tree is so Frisian, so I wonder how the Frisians will fit in.
This is very good news.
Elske wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:07 pm
He'll do a DNA-test as well, so I'll be able to get more information.
His results will probably be similar to yours because it looks like all Frisians are getting Scottish and Norwegian scores in these calculators.

The strange thing, though, is why would that be happening, when it is said that Frisians have genetic connections both to North Dutch people (from some Frisian speakers who switched to the Dutch language over the centuries, such as is suggested for the province of North Holland) and to North German people.

I see that your upper GEDmatch matches RK7480975, T227267, ES3440834, and CZ8530461 have test-takers and kit managers with Dutch and Frisian first and last names but then it gets weird below them because it seems you are matching mostly Americans with non-Dutch and non-Frisian surnames who probably each only have a little bit of ancestry from the Netherlands.
My kit number is T544042. According to IBD segment analysis, I'm genetically 98.34% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.09% Sephardi Jewish, 0.46% Polish Catholic, and 0.11% Mizrahi Jewish. My genetics pages, My Quora

Elske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:59 pm

Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Elske » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:10 am

Hello Kevin!

The Frisians are (originally) a mix of Angles, Jutes, Saxons and ancient Frisii. Scandinavian DNA is to be expected, because of the Angles, Jutes AND the connection between Frisia and the vikings. But Scotland? :?:

I ran the Eurogenes K36 calculator and I filled in the percentages on https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

Population
Amerindian 0.16 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 1.67 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.05 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 0.35 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.98 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 13.42 Pct
French 9.79 Pct
Iberian 10.78 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 3.96 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 17.01 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 23.79 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 2.22 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.83 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

I'll only mention the dark red and red sections.: Denmark (87), The Netherlands, (86), West-Scotland (85), East-England (84), South-West Wales (83), North-East Ireland (82), Central-Ireland (82), Mid-South Norway (82), Mid-South Sweden (81) and Mid-North Germany (80)
What do you think about these results?

The first two pages of DNA-matches on MyHeritage show me only Frisian and Dutch matches. Two of them are also on my match-list on GEDMatch: RK7480975 and QZ6123472.

Kind regards,
Elske

Kevin Brook
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:55 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Kevin Brook » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:45 pm

One of my thoughts is that the Frisians probably have Angles among their ancestors, in addition to Saxons. Both ideas were proposed by scholars.

Also that you are probably right about a Viking influence.
My kit number is T544042. According to IBD segment analysis, I'm genetically 98.34% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.09% Sephardi Jewish, 0.46% Polish Catholic, and 0.11% Mizrahi Jewish. My genetics pages, My Quora

Kevin Brook
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:55 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Kevin Brook » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:12 pm

Elske,
Do you know which red hair gene allele(s) you inherited? They can be looked up inside your raw data file from MyHeritageDNA.
Now that you've transferred your MyHeritageDNA kit to Family Tree DNA, you're eligible to join Richard Stevens' Red Hair Variants project at https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/re ... background
See the 2 tables with many red hair alleles on that page.
My kit number is T544042. According to IBD segment analysis, I'm genetically 98.34% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.09% Sephardi Jewish, 0.46% Polish Catholic, and 0.11% Mizrahi Jewish. My genetics pages, My Quora

Elske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:59 pm

Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Elske » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:55 pm

Hey Kevin,

Thanks for your message. The Red Hair Variants...sounds interesting! :D

I'll look at my data tonight, so I'll come back to you with the results.

Elske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:59 pm

Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Elske » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:04 pm

Kevin Brook wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:12 pm
Elske,
Do you know which red hair gene allele(s) you inherited? They can be looked up inside your raw data file from MyHeritageDNA.
Now that you've transferred your MyHeritageDNA kit to Family Tree DNA, you're eligible to join Richard Stevens' Red Hair Variants project at https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/re ... background
See the 2 tables with many red hair alleles on that page.
I seem to match quite a few RefSNP numbers. What do you think?

rs1805008 : rs1805008,"16","89986144","CT"
rs885479 : -
rs2228479 : rs2228479,"16","89985940","GG"
rs1805006 : rs1805006,"16","89985918","CC"
rs1110400 : rs1110400,"16","89986130","TT"
rs1805005 : rs1805005,"16","89985844","GG"

rs11547464 : rs11547464,"16","89986091","GG"
rs1805009 : rs1805009,"16","89986546","GG"
rs1805007 : -
rs34474212 : -

Phillipe Collier
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:16 am

Re: Can someone help me with my results? Confused Dutchie...

Post by Phillipe Collier » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:33 pm

Well the strong indicator here tells me your totally north European genetically. Does this fit your known ancestry from both sides? Red hair is common in many ethic groups my Wife’s dad had red Hair and he was 100% Ashkenazic as is she but she’s got darker hair. Sorry I missed the 7% ish west Asian not sure what that is as your East Med is at normal levels for an English or Irish person on that calculator, my English second cousin has about that level mine is much higher I’ve recent Middle Eastern ancestry.

On mums north Euro side we have some Dutch ancestry it’s very like English genetically.
Last edited by Phillipe Collier on Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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